he was an incredible competitor after lance armstrong and lance armstrong, as betty said, went after greg lemond. do you think lance armstrong gets it, bill? >> i think he gets that he should get it, and i think what we're seeing here is he's really struggling with it. what's interesting to me is there's sort of parallel views of this going on. there's a lot of people who are skeptical, but i was reading all the reactions today from jonathan and tyler hamilton and frankie. they have all acknowledged how hard it is just to do what he's done, and frankie in a report today was saying until you sit down and start talking to usada, you don't know how hard that is. the people who are there and made the mistakes he did in a smaller way, they seem to have more empathy for him than everyone else. interesting. >> oprah asked about paying off allegations that he attempted to pay off usada or somebody in his world attempted to pay off usada. let's listen to what he said. >> last wednesday night travis tygart ceo of usada told 60 minutes sports that someone on your team offered a donation that us